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Author Topic: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
etienne
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Post B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:21
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Hi all,
I would l ike to share with you a few pictures of 3D prints of a head, created each with a formlabs Form 1 and a B9 creator.

We love the idea of the B9, it's open source, and the calibration can be done by ourselves, unlike with the Form 1.
The ongoing printing cost is also lower with the B9.

However we are not so happy with the quality of the B9.

Whereas the DLP printed objects show the usual pixelation of the projector on the side of the head, it is only barely visible.
What however is strongly visible are lines along the layers. you can strongly see this on the forehead

This may be a problem of a miscalibrated z-axis of the specific printer it was printed on - and not a general problems of all the B9 printers. Tim Yoshi, who was so kind to make the B9 sample for us, allowed us to share his name.

So my question is, how likely it is that these lines appear, and whether other B9 owners experience similar lines, perpendicular on their objects.

Please note: since the resins used for both printers, the form 1 and the b9 were different, we spray-painted the samples with a filler-type of spray paint, for better comparison. The filler spray paint is supposed to fill tiny dents and streaks.

Image

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:24
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This picture shows the pixelation of the DLP beamer on the right head side.

Also visible on the right head side, but not as strong as on the left head side are those lines along the layers
Image

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:27
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this picture shows the left head side, the lines along the layers are strongly visible.
Image

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:32
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Here are two makro shots of the left head side.

where the picture shows the DLP pixels, the light comes from the right side. (picture 1)

where the exact same view of the same 3D object shows those layer-lines, the light comes from the top (picture2)

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:33
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[deleted]

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:37
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sorry, the pictures didn't upload. I'll try again one by one. First the picture 1, light coming from the side
Image

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:39
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here is picture no2, light coming from top.

Just as a side note: The 3D Head model was done manually (no 3D scanning) from two standard photos by http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com
Image

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

tim.yoshi
Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:44
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Hello, thanks for posting this.
Yes, I actually likely have some troubles with Z-axis. Will disassemble it once again and try my best to make it smooth.

Image

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 04:50
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The fact that the layer lines are stronger on one side than on the other, it can only be a "wobbling" z-axis.

What do you think, is this a general problem for all B9 printers, or not?
Can this be solved by using different components, such as a linear rail, or similar (see picture), for example ?

Maybe Tim can also give his opinion on this matter, since it's his printer :)
Image

Etienne Renaud
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Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

KNSCi
Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 08:16
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We are also experiencing a lot of 'stairstep' or 'terrain contour' lines in our prints, at much larger intervals than the z-axis resolution. Was thinking it was a characteristic of B9, but am now concerned about our machine. Will be monitoring this thread for further.

What were the print settings? size of the objects?

mikej
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 09:06
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Certainly some room for improvements here and WHEN (not if) we make them there will be an optional hardware upgrade path for existing users.

That said, the banding you see is considerably worse than I get on my test machines. Much could probably be eliminated by following some of the excellent assembly tips noted here: http://b9creator.com/support/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=1330#postid-12469

behold3d
Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 09:36
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There are also other users incorporating radial bearings that seem to help.Tim is definitely the person to ask since he has great results. What resin did you use Tim?

Robert-
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 14:26
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What resolution were these printed and what slice thickness.

Burnsjt
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 20:37
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Hi,
I plan on doing some tests with upgrading the actuator system in my B9, I will be posting as soon as I can get some time after the holidays are over with more details.

Portfolio: http://www.jasonthomasburns.com/
Blog: http://www.pixelfission.com/blog/

vchmiele
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 23:32
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Hi Mike,

Any rough timeline on when we can expect an upgrade? Q1 or Q2 of 2014? :)

mikej
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 23:36
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Hopefully in Q2, lot's of variables so no promises. :)

vchmiele
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 21, 2013, 23:37
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Awesome, thanks!

etienne
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 23, 2013, 03:26
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@ KNSCi

'Terrain contour' lines, as you call it, would have nothing to do with a wobbling z-axis. This is definitely due to the pixelation of the beamer. this is visible in my picture that I referred to as picture number one (permalink: http://b9creator.com/support/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=1375.0#postid-12888)

In regards to your question, sorry that I forgot to mention the actual size of the object:

ear to ear: approx 40mm
top to bottom: approx 60mm
back side of head to tip of nose: approx 55mm.

The object was printed by Tim Yoshi at 75 microns resolution.

Another one, that wasn't better or worse, was printed at 100 microns resolution.

The 50 microns resolution was too small for the head.

Etienne Renaud
_____________________________________________________
Need to have 3D files created from sketches or photos?
low priced and quick turnaround times: http://www.WeMakeYour3D.com

Not really 3D Printing, but somewhat similar: http://www.looxis.de

printer_ki-
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Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 23, 2013, 13:46
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Why does that form 1 print look so nice when everything I've been seeing online seems to suck?

tim.yoshi
Post Re: B9 Creator Z-axis / comparison to Form 1
on: December 23, 2013, 14:05
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As Etienne said it was 75Xy and something like 40-50z. Can't remember thought. Regarding resin - that was hybrid, but with much more concentration of MJR's SubG+. Something like 10-20% B9R-Red + 80-90% of SubG+ and of course some weird mix of pigments. I really can't say what's was there coz I just poured there results of all of my previous experiments :) So that's why I call it "Dirty Hybrid" :) For sure there is black, yellow, possibly some cyan and some mica (pearl). Also there is present in some small quantity titanium dioxide and fluorescent pigments. Maybe traces of basic SubG (without "+") is there too.

Regarding improvement, yes I'd like to improve it. Possibly will try to work out some independent solution.

Image

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